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Which movie?: Buddhist female prostrates herself welcoming her conqueror

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    coastalcruiser

    He has killed her family and taken her land, yet she kindly welcomes him when he visits. He gets frustrated and asks her to hate him.

    Is this scene in RAN??

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    Ugetsu

    I assume its Ran you are thinking of, but you may be confusing the Lady Sue character (the devout Buddhist) and the young blind man whose shack Lord Ichimonji stumbles across after his downfall.

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    coastalcruiser

    thanx for the reply. I do recall that scene with the shack. Memorable. But I am referring to when the the woman (and I guess its Lady Sue because I believe the shack scene is in the same movie as the scene I’m looking for, so it may well be Ran), who comes out of her house (or meditation dwelling) and greets the lord who conquered her land. She falls to the ground and welcomes him. It’s definitely a male / female encounter I’m seeking.

    Guess it’s time for another viewing of Ran! :>

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    Ugetsu

    I think that is it – I can’t quite remember, but I think Lord Ichimonji does have a conversation like that with Lady Sue.

    But yes, there is only one way to be sure 🙂

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    coastalcruiser

    The movie is next up in my Netflix queue. :>

    I will post back with confirmation in case you are curious. ;>

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    Vili Maunula

    I took a quick look, and I think that the scene that you refer to is indeed in Ran, and starts around the 0h 43min 30sec mark (in my Criterion edition). It is indeed Sue and Ichimonji talking.

    You actually remember the scene pretty well, the only difference being that Sue is on the castle wall rather than in the small meditation dwelling / shrine. But Ichimonji actually checks the shrine first before finding her elsewhere, so it seems your memory simply followed Ichimonji’s steps! 🙂

    Can I ask why you are looking for this particular scene? 🙂 Was it just one of those nagging things that won’t let go of you before you find an answer? (The other day, while writing a shopping list, I spent a quarter of an hour trying to remember what a cauliflower is called — in any of the handful of languages that I know — and in the end gave up and googled for “white broccoli”…)

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    coastalcruiser

    LOL! Thanx for the confirmation. And the time mark! While I too will put life on pause whilst attempting to recall the name of a common item, in this particular case I am writing a book and thought to use that scene as an example/metaphor of an evolved being transcending the ego’s desire for revenge. Sue is exemplary both in foregoing the urge to try and kill the man who effectively destroyed her life, as well as recognizing that the murderer of her family as “another copy of her”, who she could not conceive of doing harm to. A very high minded concept.

    BTW – The book is in regards to a individual’s life long search for the best path to “enlightenment”, and their is a chapter dedicated to the ego and the current tools available to spot and then transcend its hold on an individual.


    hmm. I just had a thought…. given that you (and others here) are fans of the sci-fi genre… and are thinking people.. (and especially since you took a different point of view from mine)…

    I just today decided to add a theme to the book regarding how the sub-genre of “machine takes over mankind”, is in fact analogous to how our minds (our egos) often subvert our true nature / true path, by convincing us to behave in a low manner toward our fellow human beings. (fear, anger, retribution, jealously, violence, etc).

    My notion is that all the stories about machines created to serve mankind and end up turning the tables, are actually sponsored from a deeper more primal fear than fear of the computer. It perhaps is actually a fear of being held prisoner by our minds. Which, unlike the fear of computers, is arguable something that already occurs.

    Am I making sense?

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    Ugetsu

    coastalcruiser

    My notion is that all the stories about machines created to serve mankind and end up turning the tables, are actually sponsored from a deeper more primal fear than fear of the computer. It perhaps is actually a fear of being held prisoner by our minds. Which, unlike the fear of computers, is arguable something that already occurs.

    Am I making sense?

    It all sounds very interesting, although its not something I know much about. Its decades since I read them, but Isaac Asimov’s I, Robot books dealt this this sort of issue in fictional form.

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    Vili Maunula

    That is an interesting question, coastalcruiser.

    I have the feeling though that we would have different starting points, so let me quickly address that. I would probably see the underlying setup as our conscious minds controlling our underlying basic unconscious urges, which constantly want us to eat everything, get everything, and copulate with everything, among other things. As such, my thinking is probably more influenced by Western psychological models of the mind than the Buddhist or Hindu traditions, of which I know very little but which I assume you are referring to when you mention the Ego.

    In fact, one particular theory that has stayed with me over the years, I think based on research in neuroscience, is that our conscious minds are to a large extent sort of gate keepers which get suggestions for actions from our subconscious, and then either let them pass or block them. In other words, we would have free will to the extent where it comes to allowing or stopping us from doing things, but may lack free will to actually initiate action.

    However, if I understood correctly, your starting point here is largely the opposite of mine, with the underlying part being harmonious and natural, and the higher consciousness mechanical and less desirable. With this in mind, your interpretation of the “rise of the machines” scenario seems to indeed work quite well.

    Although I suppose that I would still emphasise the narrative traditions of Prometheus, Frankenstein and the rest. Within this context, the “rise of the machines” scenario seems to be about overreaching and going too far before understanding the results of one’s actions, and being punished for that. Although even then, it of course very much carries that theme of what is natural and what is not, which you also seem to be proposing.

    I have sometimes also wondered if the “rise of the machines” setup, at least when viewed within the western tradition, isn’t a wish fulfillment about our own human place in the world. If our creations can overthrow us, might it also mean that we should be able to overthrow whatever it is that supposedly created us?

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