http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ Akira Kurosawa Forums » Tag: film club - Recent Posts en Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:17:57 +0000 http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-2307 Sat, 06 Mar 2010 06:39:12 +0000 Vili Maunula 2307@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>Indeed, it's been a bit quiet here lately, and I suppose that it's partly my fault for not having been able to be a more active host for various reasons.</p> <p>Which reminds me: would someone be interested in taking over the planning and execution of the planned Non-Kurosawa Film Club, where we would watch films other than Kurosawa? Basically, someone should come up with a schedule, and if possible recommendations for possible background reading and such.</p> <p>Oh, and welcome to the group hobosailor! </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-2304 Thu, 04 Mar 2010 11:29:40 +0000 Ugetsu 2304@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>Hi hobosailor, good to have you here, we need a few more perspectives to spice up the comments! Its gone a bit quiet now as people don't seem to be so interested in Kurosawa's later films (and also, as in my case, hobbled by lack of Region II availability), but I'm sure it'll liven up later. I'm really looking forward to tackling the early classics again, I think we only scratched the surface of most of the films in the first round of the AK film club. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-2302 Thu, 04 Mar 2010 06:08:09 +0000 hobosailor 2302@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>Hi folks,</p> <p>A newcomer here; I'm posting in this thread because I think that the AK Film Club idea as a whole is excellent--indeed, precisely the sort of discussion I enjoy. If I try to get on board for Scandal in April (the rest of March is busy for me), it will give me a great excuse to convince my spouse that I "need" to buy the Ecplise box. I just wish Criterion would ramp up their promised release of the pre-1946 titles, so I could restart at AK's beginning with all of you. However, please consider this a newbie's vote for the chronological restart plan, so that the Film Club discussions might keep rolling with Drunken Angel in November.</p> <p>One great thing is that, while I still have only seen Kurosawa on DVD, that's about to change with a massive local AK festival in Palo Alto; a few weeks from now, I'll have seen about 10 films on the big screen. Wow.</p> <p>This thread is filed under "Introduce Yourself," so I hope it's not rude to extend this "vote" post by doing so: I'm a lifelong film lover who has gradually traced my way back to the older films that influenced my contemporary favorites, and also to more aesthetically challenging films than the Hollywood fare I grew up with. I'm guessing that's true for many folks here.</p> <p>As for Kurosawa: Until not long ago, I had seen Rashomon, parts of Seven Samurai, and parts of Ran, but nothing else, and I thought of those three films as "important" but nothing I would take lots of time to watch again. Then I was given the Criterion sets of Rashomon and 7S as gifts, and started exploring. I couldn't believe what I was watching: somehow, something clicked and I was completely stupefied by the power and beauty of these films. In the past few months, the experience has intensified, and now AK is an obsession for me. I'm reading every book I can get my hands on, Richie, Prince, Goodwin, buying any DVD I can afford. A "day off" in the past several weeks is merely synonymous, for me, with "A chance to watch a Kurosawa film." That's why I went looking for sites, and this one impresses me the most, by far, in terms of the quality of discussion. Thanks, Vili.</p> <p>So far, I've watched The Quiet Duel, Rashomon, Seven Samurai, Throne of Blood, Hidden Fortress, Yojimbo, Sanjuro, and Ran. I can't even begin to "rank" these; each has its unique, singular quality for me and only Quiet Duel is not up to the level of the others (though I find it interesting, especially Mifune's performance). </p> <p>I'm thrilled to find a place where other people are as fascinated by these films as I am. When I become interested in a great artist, I tend to dive in all the way, trying to make sense of everything I can learn. I'm all the way in with AK now, and would be glad to learn whatever others have to share. (dylanexpert, if you're reading this post and you mean bob and not the poet, I'm right there with you, we should talk dylan sometime).</p> <p>As for other major film interests, I'd say Welles (with reservations), Ozu (only lately), Coppola and Scorsese in small doses, Boetticher and the Coens in any doses at all; the director who's been my favorite until Kurosawa is Aronofsky. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/rashomon-the-wipe#post-2235 Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:16:52 +0000 Lewis Saul 2235@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>Of course, that is exactly correct -- (about Sat. aft. serials) ...</p> <p>the wipe become a huge device in the 30's and both Ford, AK and Lucas are either directly or indirectly inspired by the way it was used back then! (esp. ak!) </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/dersu-uzala-kurosawas-poem-of-despair#post-2214 Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:42:42 +0000 cocoskyavitch 2214@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>I am pleased to know that the beards were real. Thank you for that information. And, I agree that choosing to live with dignity on your own terms is both heroic and for those who care about the well-being of a person, it can be heartbreaking. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/dersu-uzala-kurosawas-poem-of-despair#post-2181 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 19:11:25 +0000 axave 2181@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <blockquote><p>And who on earth was responsible for those fake beards?</p></blockquote> <p>the beards were real. I know this from director's assistant, Vasiliev </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-2018 Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:13:48 +0000 Vili Maunula 2018@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>Having thought about it, I think that we should keep the chronology and watch the two Sanshiro Sugata films separately. If it's worth doing chronologically, it is worth doing right. Also, if we have less discussion for those months, it leaves more time for the first films of the planned parallel film club of non-Kurosawa films.</p> <p>Or, does that sound stupid?</p> <p>In any case, I made a mistake. <em>Sanshiro Sugata Part II</em> was completed before <em>The Men Who Tread on the Tiger's Tail</em>. So, here is the revised schedule.</p> <p>January: Dodesukaden (1970)<br /> February: Dreams (1990)<br /> March: Rhapsody in August (1991)<br /> April: Scandal (1950)<br /> May: Sanshiro Sugata (1943)<br /> June: The Most Beautiful (1944)<br /> July: Sanshiro Sugata II (1945)<br /> August: The Men Who Tread on the Tiger's Tail (1945)<br /> September: No Regrets for Our Youth (1946)<br /> October: One Wonderful Sunday (1947)</p> <p>After October, we would just continue with the chronology.</p> <p>Like previously, if you already at this point have ideas for topics that you'd like to deal with and which require background reading or watching something more than the film itself, you can let others know of your intentions beforehand, so that those interested can also get hold of and familiarise themselves with the additional material.</p> <p>In fact, I think that I will be doing something like this with <em>Dreams</em>. I recently picked up a copy of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naguib_Mahfouz">Naguib Mahfouz</a>'s collection <em><a href="http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0307455076/languagnewsfo-20">The Dreams</a></em>, and I think that I won't read it until February when we watch Kurosawa's <em>Dreams</em>. The connection between the two goes deeper than just the title: Mahfouz's is a collection of short dream narratives that he wrote at the end of his long career, from age 88 up until his death in 2006 at the age of 94. It may (or it may not) be interesting to compare his dreams to Kurosawa's.</p> <p>Also, if you can think of other dream related works from artists past their 75th birthday, let me know! </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-2012 Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:54:38 +0000 lawless 2012@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>The schedule sounds great and I'd be interested in a second pass on at least some of the films whose discussion I missed. Looking at adaptations and other Japanese films of the period also interests me. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-2004 Wed, 14 Oct 2009 11:51:53 +0000 littlebigsis 2004@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>the schedule sounds ace guys, im looking forward to it already. id be interested in reading your review of Mellens book Ugetsu as its one i've thought about getting once i've finished with my dissertation and then hopefully i can start participating in more of these discussions.</p> <p>cant wait xx </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-2002 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 05:34:04 +0000 Jeremy 2002@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>To applaud with Yuzo. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-2001 Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:20:11 +0000 Ugetsu 2001@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <blockquote><p>Would you mind posting your review of 'The Waves on Genji's Shore' when you complete it? </p></blockquote> <p>Will do (might be delayed as I'm following my usual habit of reading 3 books simultaneously!) I can say now that its a terrific book, a very good read. Its very opinionated (and very much 'of its time' - early '70's), but I enjoy that as it makes it more entertaining. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-2000 Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:08:32 +0000 cocoskyavitch 2000@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p><strong>Ugetsu</strong>! I am happy to hear that Joan Mellen liked Kurosawa's use of Hara I also think she is remarkable in <em><strong>No Regrets</strong></em> and in <em><strong>The Idiot</strong></em>! So different from her roles for Ozu! It makes me so happy...just as it pleases me to see what Kobayashi was able to draw from Nakadai!</p> <p>Would you mind posting your review of 'The Waves on Genji's Shore' when you complete it? I would find it very interesting! </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-1999 Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:21:35 +0000 Ugetsu 1999@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>A vote here too for Runaway Train, for me a hugely underrated film. It was actually for some years one of my all time favourite films despite that I only realised it was a Kurosawa script when I started looking at this site!</p> <blockquote><p>Now that more good-quality transfers and translations of films by Ozu, Mizoguchi, Kobayashi, Kurosawa are available, it would be fun to do a comparative project...after all, Kurosawa did not exist in a vaccuum. </p></blockquote> <p>I do like this idea - perhaps it could run in parallel to the AK Film Club? It would be nice to have some parallel discussions going, especially if the months film is one that doesn't inspire a lot of comments (there are some that I admire, but honestly can't think of anything interesting to say about them except that I like it - Dersu being one of them). I'm just finishing Joan Mellens book 'The Waves on Genji's Shore' and it makes some very interesting comparisons between the various film makers in the post war years. She made a really interesting comparison between Kurosawa and Ozu's use of Setsuko Hara - reflecting favourably on Kurosawa it must be said. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-1998 Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:27:50 +0000 cocoskyavitch 1998@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>I think it would be interesting to a second pass on Kurosawa-with a comparative view of his contemporaries. You know-just to put it historical perspective, and to see what else was happening. I have another blog site on Ozu, that I also enjoy, but I don't see where there is a comparative site...</p> <p>Now that more good-quality transfers and translations of films by Ozu, Mizoguchi, Kobayashi, Kurosawa are available, it would be fun to do a comparative project...after all, Kurosawa did not exist in a vaccuum. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-1997 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 17:00:05 +0000 Ryan 1997@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>I second the notion of After the Rain, considering it is Kurosawa's screenplay that is used. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-1996 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 07:59:30 +0000 Vili Maunula 1996@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>Also, we could certainly tackle both Sanshiro Sugatas in one month as Ugetsu suggests. Even if it breaks the chronology somewhat. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-1995 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 07:57:25 +0000 Vili Maunula 1995@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>I for one would certainly be interested in discussing the films mentioned by Noel here, as well as other films based on scripts by Kurosawa and his team.</p> <p>Others have previously suggested that we also consider films from Kurosawa's Japanese contemporaries (Ozu, Mizoguchi, Naruse, etc.) which I think is also something that we could do.</p> <p>A third group of potential films could be remakes and adaptations of Kurosawa's works, and films that use the same source material as a Kurosawa film.</p> <p>I think we will need to vote about this at some point, but I personally wouldn't like to start a parallel film club before we get through the first cycle of Kurosawa films (or, at the very earliest, when we get to the very early films, which may produce less discussion). </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-1994 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 07:35:08 +0000 Ugetsu 1994@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>That schedule looks good to me. The only suggestion I'd make is that given how difficult it is to get a copy of Sanshiro Sugato II is, and how uninteresting a film it is claimed to be (I've never seen it), perhaps both Sanshiro movies could take up one month? </p> <p>I think looping back again chronologically is a great idea. With hindsight, I think discussing the films is better if there is some sort of structure, as I think in past discussions we were leaping onto very different unconnected films just as the discussion on one was getting really interesting. It could be done thematically, as Prince did, but I don't think anyone would ever agree on which ones should be grouped together! So I'm really looking forward to discussing them in sequence. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-1993 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 03:26:40 +0000 NoelCT 1993@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>If you're looking for thoughts about a secondary film club, why not RUNAWAY TRAIN, AFTER THE RAIN, THE SEA IS WATCHING, and DORA-HEITA? The fact that they aren't fully by Kurosawa alone could lead to some interesting discussion.</p> <p>And I very much share that soft spot for ONE WONDERFUL SUNDAY. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/film-club-schedule-for-2010#post-1992 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:39:39 +0000 Vili Maunula 1992@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>I realised that it's already almost 2010 -- brace yourselves for the year ending "top of the decade lists", people, especially those of you who hate rankings! It is in fact probably better not to turn on your TV or computer at all in the next few months (except for ak.info, of course).</p> <p>Anyway, with the year number soon changing I realised that it would also be the time to come up with next year's Film Club schedule, so that those who need to purchase the films can begin to plan their next year's budget.</p> <p>We have ten movies left when the new year begins, and I think that there is still much left to discuss, even if the films themselves were not your first choices. For the previous years' schedules, I asked for your votes and devised a schedule based on your suggestions, but looking at the films remaining, I thought I'd just go ahead and suggest the schedule myself. Here is what I had in mind:</p> <p>January: Dodesukaden (1970)<br /> February: Dreams (1990)<br /> March: Rhapsody in August (1991)<br /> April: Scandal (1950)<br /> May: Sanshiro Sugata (1943)<br /> June: The Most Beautiful (1944)<br /> July: The Men Who Tread on the Tiger's Tail (1945)<br /> August: Sanshiro Sugata II (1945)<br /> September: No Regrets for Our Youth (1946)<br /> October: One Wonderful Sunday (1947)</p> <p>Basically, what we have left are three more recent films, one early mid-period film (<em>Scandal</em>), and then the first six films of Kurosawa's career. I suggest that we start with <em>Dodesukaden</em>, as for one Criterion went through the trouble of putting out a new print earlier this year, and secondly since the film has some strong connections with <em>The Lower Depths</em> (which we are discussing now), it would be good if there wasn't too much time between the two.</p> <p>After that, I think we could deal with <em>Dreams</em> and <em>Rhapsody in August</em>, in that order, simply because they are generally available, while the availability of many of the remaining films is still something of a question mark for many of us. Following the same logic, I would say that we discuss <em>Scandal</em> in April. Since Criterion seems to be putting out <a href="http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/ak-100-25-films">something yummy</a> later this year, I think that it is good if we in this way push the older films further in our schedule. Maybe by the time we get to them, copies of the early films are already readily available (I'm thinking individual DVDs here, as I doubt all of you are ready to pay $399 for a box set of films which you for the most part already own).</p> <p>I would also suggest that once we finally do get to the very early films, we go through them chronologically. I understand that many of you may not find the early films themselves as interesting as Kurosawa's later works, so perhaps looking at them and Kurosawa's early development as a film maker in sequence may add to your interest.</p> <p>There is also another reason for the chronological sequence. Some of you who started following the website only after we kicked off our film club have asked if we might continue with the Kurosawa Film Club even after all the Kurosawa films have been watched once, so that you could cover films that you missed the first time around. Now, if enough interest is there, I can certainly continue hosting the AK Film Club, and my semi-clever idea was that once the current cycle ends with <em>One Wonderful Sunday</em> (as it is in my current plan), the Film Club would simply continue, this time going through Kurosawa's career chronologically (and in doing so maybe making it worthwhile for also the old regulars to stick around for second viewing).</p> <p>We have of course also talked about watching films other than Kurosawa movies, and I would really like to do that as well, perhaps with two Film Clubs running simultaneously, so we'll have to see how everything fits in.</p> <p>In any case, this would mean that <em>One Wonderful Sunday</em> is the last film of the first Film Club. Some of you may remember that it is a film that I personally have a particular soft spot for, and I must say that the idea of having it as the last film of our film club (which I have thoroughly enjoyed, and continue to enjoy) makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside!</p> <p>But since this is not my film club, I am open for any kind of input. If you instead want to watch the films in a reversed chronological order, an alphabetical order, or the order of the films' release dates' Unix timestamps' square roots sorted in a reverse descending order according to their proximity to prime numbers, I'm sure that we can work something out.</p> <p>Let me know what you think! </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/ran-gods-as-audience-audience-as-gods#post-1989 Mon, 05 Oct 2009 12:54:54 +0000 cocoskyavitch 1989@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p><strong>lawless</strong>, your "working from memory" phrase seems apt. </p> <p>Although I have seen <em><strong>Ran</strong></em> on the big screen and the small, I'm writing from memory, and the residue of what remains. It seems to met that sometime, a film might be appreciated not so much as a frog on the dissection table, but as an experience. <em><strong>Ran </strong></em>was certainly meant to be an experience. The color-coded armies in battle filmed with such incredible beauty-that's one example. Others are: images of Hidetora as arrows whizz by in the burning castle, Hidetora walking down the stairs of the aforementioned, and the scenes of the Fool and master and the gasping at ghosts in the long grass of the field. </p> <p>While panorama and the long view are used extensively, closeups stick in my mind, as well. It may be a trick of memory to bring those images in and hold them close, but I think it is a valid response. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/ran-gods-as-audience-audience-as-gods#post-1988 Sat, 03 Oct 2009 06:06:37 +0000 lawless 1988@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>I'm working from memory here from when the movie first came out, but the secnes near the end with the fool and Hidetora were very moving and affecting. My impression of the whole piece, as I recall, was that it was far more pessimistic about the human condition than the other Kurosawa films I'd seen at that time, the most recent of which was <em>Sanjuro</em> (actually, that's still true, although I own a copy of <em>Rhapsody in August</em> I haven't taken the time to sit down and watch). I do recall it feeling a bit remote, perhaps because of the pessimism and perhaps because of the perspective. I was blown away by the use of color and design to identify the various armies. </p> <p>That's pretty much it for me and <em>Ran</em>, though I'd like to see it again sometime. Despite being fairly unrelenting in its gloom, I sitll like it better than <em>Rashomon. </em> </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/ran-gods-as-audience-audience-as-gods#post-1987 Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:35:26 +0000 cocoskyavitch 1987@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>Ah, I revise a bit: life affirming may be too upbeat, too positive. Maybe I let words trample my true feelings.</p> <p>But warm...well.... Yes, but "human" may be better. The scenes of the fool and Hidetora in the dry landscape seem very personal. The scenes in the fields hunting boar and seeing ghosts-these seem very personal, close, human, warm. They do to me. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/ran-gods-as-audience-audience-as-gods#post-1986 Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:26:13 +0000 cocoskyavitch 1986@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>I love these posts. Good stuff, gentlemen!</p> <p>Point of View: Omnipotent/the Viewpoint of the Gods: </p> <p>We are "gods" with an omnipotent viewpoint in a number of Kurosawa films. As gods, we "play" the role of judges in<em><strong> Rashomon</strong></em>, and in <em><strong>The Lower Depths</strong></em> we are sometimes hiding like rats in the shadows to peep at the human comedy/tragedy unfolding before us. In <em><strong>Seven Samurai</strong></em> we are in the pits beside the road as horses thunder by, we are in the flowers on the mountainside, in the mud beneath the horses' hooves, and by the shoulder of Mifune when he removes a spear from a bandit's belly. An elevated viewpoint does not a god make...you think the gods live in the sky? They live in the flowers, in the trees, in the mud. It is the omniscient viewpoint, not the placement of it that makes a god. </p> <p>(I am wondering if the increasing use of knowledge technologies isn't changing the game plan of education radically, in that those who may be privy to knowldege are no longer a select few? In fact, in the lower regions of education, it already has changed to an online format. Is the reality of the magnificent professor with accumulated wisdom and knowledge-the "knowledge god" becoming a relic of the past?).</p> <p>Is <em><strong>Ran</strong></em> Kurosawa's statement of pessimism? Is it a turning point in Kurosawa's worldview as shown in his films?</p> <p>I don't know that there is a more hopeless view of humanity than that shown in "Throne of Blood". After all, even if Mifune's character is a bad man (and that is worthy of discussion) the entire film is about betrayal. In the climax, when Mifune becomes a pincushion, his army betrays him, then the coda shows us the rocks and dust and smoke of burial mounds. Neither army won the unseen final battle. In fact, the battle is not final, and we are to understand humanity will continue on in this way forever until we are mounds of dust.</p> <p>I know this will seem wrong to some, and I may decide at some future date that I have made an error in judgement, but I find<em><strong> Ran</strong></em> to be a very life-affirming film. Of course it shows the horrors of war, of betrayal and the abuses of power. It shows the horrible sight of a father abandoned by his children, and his wandering in the desert..encountering the living ghosts of his past sins. </p> <p>What warms me, is the fact that has two close allies, who remain by him, who suffer with him. The image of the fool crying over Hidetora returns to my eyes time and time again. The fool, angry to be put in the position of caring for an old man, angry at his fate-yet unable to abandon Hidetora, much as he would like. When I think of <em><strong>Ran</strong></em> I think of the steadfast uprightness of the younger son, who doesn''t sugar-coat his objections to his father-who loves him even when wronged. </p> <p><em><strong>Ran</strong></em> is partly the story of an ageing father and his sons. Nakadai seems to me to very convincingly show us the elderly man, bereft of his power, losing his physical and mental capabilities as well, as strike after strike against him leaves him weaker and more confused. People have told me the Noh makeup is off-putting, and I have read criticism that complains of it. But, it works for me very well to create a kind of aesthtic distance that is the equivalent of the feeling one has encountering the old. I feel that the elderly often call up fear in the hearts of younger people. The elderly are nearer death, and seem to have it about them-they are eerie, frightened and frightening -partaking of the ghost world in their translucent flesh and hair and wispy voices and trembling moans. I feel the age of Hidetora, his compass lost, his entire life questioned.</p> <p>My aesthetic response to <em><strong>Ran</strong></em> is not cold, in fact, it is surprisingly warm. I believe that there is still a message, as in early Kurosawa films: placing your own desires above respect for and concern for humanity sows dangerous seeds, and all are hurt by the actions one takes to achieve power and authority over others. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/ran-gods-as-audience-audience-as-gods#post-1985 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 04:48:21 +0000 Jeremy 1985@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>Another excellent writeup Vili.<br /> I too have felt, although to a lesser and even further lesser elegant extent, Ran was summing up some disappointments for the future. As Kurosawa 40 years of cinema went by, so did the 40 years since the Ningen-sengen (Humanity Declaration). After WWII for many even far outside Japan, there was a belief humanity had rid itself of war. For Japan specifically, when Emperor Showa no longer declared himself a god, and America help established Japan or any country for that matter had no gods, had no superiority, and there was no fate for anyone to rule the world. Peace would be forever lasting, for once humanity would understand the paths of destruction. </p> <p>As Ran became about, it was peace that was the distant concept, and the love of war showed to never remove it's hold. In fact the fear of true destruction was far more real then WWII could ever present. The world, had already know the lengths, and human imagination needed not extend far, to see war being a permanent goal of men.</p> <p>In many of Kurosawa's movies before Ran, there appears to be a hope that remained. Ran, however, as Ugetsu puts it, showed a more cold, clear-eyed view of humanity. A view frightfully summed up as, Vili points out: "in every age ... watched us tread the path of evil, unable to live without killing each other". </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/ran-gods-as-audience-audience-as-gods#post-1980 Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:44:10 +0000 Ugetsu 1980@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>This is a great post, Vili, I think you are very much onto something here. In my reading I've often been puzzled by how the Kurosawa 'experts' have so little to say about the film, most of the rave reviews (its worth going to rottentomatoes.com to see them) are from a later generation of writers. I can't comment on Japanese critics, but I understand from reading Martinez that they were very wary of the film, even seeing it as a 'foreign' production. I think this 'gap' in analysis means that there is a tendency to see it as a stand alone work of art, rather than the end point of a long process of film making (maybe too many people have been influenced by Richies view that Red Beard was effectively Kurosawa's final statement).</p> <p>I think the role of the audience in his films has been greatly underestimated. Speculating here, I've often wondered if his very collaborative way of writing his early screenwriters resulted in scripts which read more like a good natured argument rather than a 'pure' view, which you tend to get with a stereotyped auteur. I had been wondering if his tendency to write more alone after Red Beard was the reason for the change in tone and the increased didacticism and (alleged) loss of irony. I think its inevitable that if a writer loses someone to knock his ideas off, this will result in scripts that are more meandering and self indulgent.</p> <p>I've struggled a little with Ran because I never quite felt that Kurosawa was engaging me in a conversation - the way I always feel when watching his best films. The comments by some critics that Ran is a somewhat self conscious attempt at creating a masterpiece is something that has nagged with me. I've never felt that Kurosawa intended that, but there is still something to it. But I think Vili's idea that Ran is really intended as deliberate summation of key themes, with the audience as accused is.... well, it means I'll have to watch it again with this in mind! </p> <p>Ok, I'm rambling now, but suffice to say I agree totally that the notion of Ran as a 'Gods Eye' view of humanity is simplistic and misleading. It is a far more complex work than this suggests. But I do think that the pessimism of the film comes out of Kurosawa's feeling that both he and the audience (i.e. us all) have ultimately failed. When the cycles of violence go round and round there is no basis for optimism. I don't think this is quite pessimism, or nihilism - more a cold clear eyed view of the humanity. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/throne-of-blood-lady-asaji-psychopath-or-victim#post-1978 Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:15:57 +0000 Vili Maunula 1978@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <blockquote><p><strong>Ugetsu:</strong> As I have speculated in other threads, one explanation may be that Lady Asaji is not an evil character after all, but has actually been possessed by the Forest Spirit.</p></blockquote> <p>I am currently reading Kendra Preston Leonard's <a href="http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0810869462/ref=nosim/languagnewsfo-20">Shakespeare, Madness and Music</a> (review forthcoming), and she has some quite interesting things to say about Noh theatre traditions in <em>Throne of Blood</em>, Lady Asaji, and Masaru Sato's score for the film.</p> <p>For Leonard, there seems to be no doubt that Asaji is possessed, and that her character falls into a common Noh convention (which apparently draws from Mahayana Buddhism) of an immoral woman as temptress, ripe for possession. She further notes that the musical and sound cues used in the soundtrack link Asaji to the witch, suggesting "that Asaji's actions come from her possession by the witch or one of its kind." (79) One good example that she give is the sound heard in the scene where Washizu asks her if she is possessed. While Asaji's answer is negative, the music heard here tells otherwise -- it is the same one that is used earlier on in the film when Miki and Washizu first approach the old woman / witch. (81)</p> <p>Leonard also suggests that music, or rather the lack of it, marks the point when Asaji's possessor has left her body. Writing about the scene where Asaji washes her hands, trying to remove the invisible blood stain, Leonard argues:</p> <blockquote><p>Asaji's obsessive washing takes place in silence; after staring at her in bewilderment, Washizu turns away from her. The startling silence and complete lack of music in this encounter between Asaji and Washizu reveal that Asaji is no longer an instrument of possession but, like other Noh women who have brought about destruction, has gone mad in the realization of her actions. ... Her power over Washizu has come to and end. She is no longer linked with prophetic witch but suffers alone. (82-83)</p></blockquote> <p>If we follow Leonard and interpret the spirit as leaving her at this point, it could also explain why Lady Asaji sort of drops out and off screen towards the end, and the film doesn't bother with her fate. In his original post, Ugetsu notes that since she is a "co-conspirator with Washizu it seems odd to me that her character is left in her situation ... you would expect some sort of 'end'. It seems a curious loose end in the film if you accept that she is a major character." Perhaps the point in fact is that she is <em>not</em> a major character, but the spirit/witch possessing her is. Once the spirit has left her body, the film has no interest in the real Lady Asaji. </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/ran-gods-as-audience-audience-as-gods#post-1964 Sat, 12 Sep 2009 09:10:35 +0000 Vili Maunula 1964@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>I cannot help it, but whenever I see a Kurosawa film these days, I sooner or later seem to start thinking about the audience's place within that film. Much has been made of Kurosawa's suggestion that <em>Ran</em> was intended as "gods' view" of human struggle, but I don't remember anyone going as far as considering the nature of these gods. My question then is: if gods are the intended audience, can the audience in fact be those gods?</p> <p>The simple answer, of course, is yes. While we didn't create those characters, we are the sole reason that they exist. But here is a longer answer.</p> <p>At the end of the film (from around 2h 30min (Criterion)), when told about Ayabe's advance against Jiro's troops, Saburo's general, sitting next to his master's dead body, asks lamenting (all quotes from Criterion subtitles): "How can this be? Of all things, at this moment, why did Master Saburo have to die? Why did Lord Hidetora have to go?" It does not take much insight to realise that the straightforward answer to the general's question -- why did they have to die at <em>this</em> moment -- is that the structure of the tragedy mandates these events, as they are the driving force of the story's final catharsis. Noteworthy is also the manner in which these lines are delivered, not facing the other soldiers or the fool, but rather by hesitantly gazing towards the direction of the camera.</p> <p>The fool continues the questioning. "Are there no gods, no buddhas? If you exist, hear my words: You're all cruel and fickle pranksters! You ease your boredom in the heavens by crushing us like worms! Damn you! Is it such sport to see us weep and howl?" For a director who forty years earlier broke the fourth wall by asking his audience to applaud for an imaginary concert (in <em>One Wonderful Sunday</em>), I find it perfectly plausible that these harsh words are directed at you and me. And in fact, the camera would seem to agree. The fool begins to deliver his lines while hunched over Hidetora's dead body, but after the first question he rises up and directs his gaze slightly upwards to his left in order to shout out his accusations. What is interesting is that at the very moment when the fool gets up and turns his head, the film cuts from a camera position pretty much in the direction of the fool's new gaze to another, much lower position on his right. Had we not moved, the fool would be looking almost directly at us. We seem to be avoiding the fool's gaze.</p> <p>Once the grief-stricken fool has delivered the above lines, the general interrupts him. "Stop it! Do not curse the gods! It is they who weep." And he is of course correct. This is, after all, our moment of catharsis.</p> <p>The general continues, now turning again to face the camera, and this time looking pretty much directly at us. "In every age they've watched us tread the path of evil, unable to live without killing each other. They can't save us from ourselves. Stop your crying! Such is the way of the world. Men live not for joy but for sorrow, not for peace but for suffering." I have the suspicion that Criterion's translation here could be better, as the word <em>ningen</em> (human being) seems to be purposely repeated more often that it would need to be (Criterion translates these into "us", "ourselves", and so on). But the general idea is still there in the subtitles, and to me this is a very powerful speech. In fact, it makes me think of another great last act, that of Shakespeare's <em>The Tempest</em>.</p> <p>The ending to Shakespeare's play is a highly symbolic one, not least because <em>The Tempest</em> is generally considered not only his last play, but also a work that on many levels sums up themes and motives from his earlier works (it has even been called Shakespeare's "Best of" release). In the final act, the play's protagonist Prospero the magician (often interpreted as standing for Shakespeare himself) sets free his various spirit servants, breaks his magic staff, and drowns his books. The play, and Shakespeare's career, ends with Prospero turning to the audience and asking them to set him free with their applause. I cannot imagine a more fitting farewell for a playwright.</p> <p>I see something very similar taking place in <em>Ran</em>. As I have argued above, the general and the fool are talking about us, as well as to us. And what the general says with his last words is certainly true, for Kurosawa's audience has at this point "in every age ... watched us tread the path of evil, unable to live without killing each other". More than 40 years of cinema, very much summed up into a single sentence. "They can't save us from ourselves. ... Men live not for joy but for sorrow, not for peace but for suffering." Here is where a more literal translation would be useful. It is true that we certainly cannot save these characters, for it is their role to act out horrors on the screen so that we could learn from them. But it is clearly also meant as a statement about us -- we are, after all, also <em>ningen</em>. 40 years of cinema, but what has the director ultimately achieved? Men are still unable to live without killing each other, and they are still unable save themselves from one other. We have not learnt anything. It is a very bleak observation, but it is an equally pure one. He has tried, but he has failed. Cinema cannot change the world.</p> <p><em>Ran</em> is, of course, not Kurosawa's final cinematic statement. But when considering the film's ending, it is good to keep in mind that at the time of making it there was no guarantee of other projects, and Kurosawa was often quoted as saying how he intended to pour all his remaining energy into <em>Ran</em>, as if it were his last film.</p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/record-of-a-living-being-family#post-1883 Thu, 06 Aug 2009 13:00:05 +0000 Vili Maunula 1883@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>Thanks, Ugetsu! </p> http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/topic/record-of-a-living-being-family#post-1879 Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:55:58 +0000 Ugetsu 1879@http://akirakurosawa.info/forums/ <p>Just to add to the issue of the law scenes, interesting <a href="http://ubisurv.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/the-new-japanese-jury-system/">blog post here</a> about changes to the Japanese court system - they are increasing the use of lay judges in criminal cases. There is a link in the blog to some research on the useful role lay judges have played in the judicial system. </p>